Caught in the Cookie Jar!

Talk about getting caught red handed!

What I'm talking about is we always knew our commercial friend was PMing behind the scenes and saying a wholelotta crap... dare I say not just making things up but flat out lying just to boonswaggle someone into buying into his tale of superiority and being all knowing?

The fact is this gent knows nothing about colors and his mixes prove it. Nothing is done 'scientifically', but depending on what mood you catch him in he'll either say it was, or denounce it all as rubbish. The simple proof is over the past couple of years his mixes have changed at least 30 times! My question is this, if it is the best, then why is it constantly changing? Would that not mean that what they sold someone on as being the best previously now is inferior? Why even change something if it is the best in the first place? And no I am not talking about his variety of shades, even the base main mix constantly changes.

Get ready because this is a long one and he still has his hand in the cookie jar but right now doesn't know he was busted!

I think the rebuttles should be in follow up comments, otherwise this will be as long as War an Peace! Anyway, this is a forwarded message our buddy Maurice sent to someone behind the scenes trying to convince them his mix is the only mix anyone should ever think of using...

Quote:Originally Posted by MississippiMan
Hi,

There is an inherent fallacy to the use of Aluminum's "Graying" tendencies. If enough Aluminum "Fine" is used to produce enough reflectivity and contrast enhancement to make a BW's performance be up to par with other "Mica Based" metallic mixes, the result is a dark mix. That cannot be changed or avoided. And that dark Gray is going to eat up more of a percentage of the lumens than is desirable, and serve to crush whites despite all the reflectivity (...the latter only helps colors to seem more vivid, but dull, gray "whites" spoils that effect and lessens the overall "PoP" and "Sizzle" of the image. It also restricts the size screen that can me considered unless one possesses a true Light cannon...

The single most unique aspect of Black Widow is how a beige Base serves as the offset / dilution factor to the aluminum's dark Gray consistency, and keeps the mix fairly neutral. Credit is due that a balance (...on the darker end...) was found, but quite honestly, that is all there is, and all that is possible.

If the amount of Aluminum is decreased to lessen the hue of "gray" then too much reflectivity is lost and the screen becomes merely a light gray screen with no claim to any appreciable benefits of a simple neutral gray paint.

Add a higher percentage of Aluminum and you get granularity and abusive reflectivity along the lines of extreme retro-reflectivity.

All of this is, and has been well known. For years in fact. That is why the use of aluminum in this manner is / was essentially abandoned.....it presented too narrow a range of acceptable performance potential.

For a few years, the powers behind BW railed against the use of reflective Mica in paint as being detrimental, even though testing and actual use proved that it has a wonderful range of adjust-ability. They were fixated on the use of simple neutral Grays....which failed to impress anyone.

And God forbid they make any attempt to come down on the side of Silver Fire, MMud-SE (silver edition) RS-MaxxMudd or ANY DIY Mix proved popular and useful by me and others. Sad that, because it all was based simply on avoiding validating any application I, and a few others had made popular through proven results.

Instead they went after "a simple neutral Gray" and had to try to re-invent the use of non-interference powders, something I tried, reported on, and discounted back in 2004.(...a tinted base and one reflective ingredient...) believing that the DIY'ers would rally around a something less complex that was something different beyond the more complex mixes that performed so "over the top", but that required more effort to "get there".

They then touted that their efforts were backed by having taken courses in Color Theory, and because they use extensive use of color mapping graphs. So their mix had to be superior....had to be the best yet. They were determined to supplant the popularity of proven DIY applications by sheer force of will and effort.

And because of a ridiculous amount of promotion and effort across several Forum fronts, they managed by sheer force of inundation to do exactly that. But the backlash started almost immediately. BW in original form is quite a dark Gray, and the amount of Aluminum in it MUST be masked by the darkness or it would be far too reflective..

Dilute the Gray with a white and all you have is a reduction in both ambient light potential (...that was their original goal in competition with Silver Fire...) and aluminum's over stated reflectivity.

The consistency of the aluminum flakes is not the answer....it's already well known that the "Fine" variety is the only acceptable choice because of granularity issues.

If one is aware of these facts, one can see why there has been such a delay in rolling out any lighter mix.....that is because they are distressed at finding that what Mississippiman told them 1 year ago is coming to pass. That they have a limited application that works well within a narrow range. But only almost 'as good as" other substantiated performers. I say "almost" because aluminum's caveats make the use of a darker BW mix problematical and dependent wholly upon screen size, and PJ luminosity.

Quantum, for any Paint, Substrate, or combination of Paint on Substrate to be a well balanced DIY application, it simply has to be adjustable to a wide variety of circumstances. BW is not in that grouping.Yes, it works....but so do several other applications. And some of them work decidedly better over a much wider range.

Sadly for some DIY'ers with no patience, or even less skills, the desire for "simple" will continue to rule their decision making process. And so being, over-hyped and excessively promoted promises of "The best results possible in the easiest manner." will always find an ear. Or eye as in this case.

I've been around this Block several times over, passing the houses of "Simple-tons" as well as the "Complexities". I have Light Fusion (...a patented process BTW...) that can carry almost any applicable paint to new levels, and when used with Silver Fire paints, presents the absolute best ambient light performance of them all, especially when adjudged by the amount of lumens required from a PJ to do the job.

That's a real pisser for a few folks, who feel that I'm "too professional" to be included in the DIY ranks. But nothing I've ever created was made not to be available for a willing DIY'er to accomplish.

I'll admit, the earliest "over-achiever" I created, MM/SM was a grueling effort, requiring a pure Silver Metallic under coat and a MississippiMud Top Coat. But for a whitish Silver Screen, it produced 'basement dwelling' Black levels from PJs with anemic lumens and contrast, at a time when the single most detrimental thing about digital PJs were their Blacks.

So a bunch of people tried it, and more were happy than not they did. but IMO too many failed because of the difficulty of applying that , gooey Silver Metallic. Had I known about Delta's SM, things might of been different, but I also was refusing to consider spraying, because I felt it went against the mandate of 'simple DIY methods'. Yeah...I was a simple-ton once too. :p

But along came a Plastic Mirror to replace the Silver Metallic, and Light Fusion was born. However now, acquiring a large Plastic Mirror was the issue, as was spraying on the paints, and although I made such stock and equipment both popular and available through contacts, many still wanted a "roll-on - paint only" experience. And who can blame them?

So I created MMud-SE, and brought small amounts of Silver Metallic back into the equation. Then with the addition of PolyAcrylic Satin, and a change up in the Silver Metallic from Behr to Delta, RS-MaxxMudd was born, and that application is what started the rush toward Ambient Light performance that did not serve to crush colors or whites. But when those paints were added to a Mirror application, both MMud-SE and RS-MaxxMudd did even better, but even without a Mirror they were, and for the most part remain the simplest mixes around that do not employ multiple tints to achieve a selectable range of "Gray" .

The end of the story is presented in the Silver Fire application. That mix is far and away the singular most impressive performer (paint only-wise) ever presented to the DIY Screen community. But it's 7-8 separate ingredients, and the need to spray it for absolute best results has held it back, primarily because naysayers have ranted about how much trouble and effort it was for the casual DIY-er.

That wasn't enough ammunition for the likes of wbassett and mech. They had to exclaim that Mica based mixes were inferior, and hold neutral Gray up as the best possible choice. That garnered them no real attention, so they lapsed back into previous ideas and re-instituted the use of non-interference aluminum.

But they are now nose-up against a brick wall, and have no chisel to chip away with. So tantalizing teasers were made, and still are made elsewhere that they are working on lighter BW varieties. But it won't ever happen, because simply put, a lightened BW mix won't really be a BW application anymore. It won't perform any better than a good paint of the same hue and color. They have found this out, but it would serve no purpose to let others know.

I'm dedicated to DIY, and I'm always unbiased. but I'm also always straight up with members. I call a Spade a Spade, and i don't gloss over difficulties. Few if any DIY applications that a resplendent in performance come "easy'. The best advice for someone with high standards but no work ethic is to stay away from ever seeing what a really effusive DIY Screen application is capable of.

You saw my S-I-L-V-E-R application I posted. Not a single individual in the history of DIY has ever accomplished that level of performance, yet still, it's not an application for someone who wants to basically "hang and shoot".

DIY is rife with egotism. Pride in one's accomplishment is a factor in why people want to "build not buy". Even more so, that applies to those who create the DIY applications. but pride should never outweigh performance....or real facts. It's very hard to ascertain whats "real' and whats "hyped' without considerable review and study of what has gone before. But the answers are out there for those willing to delve deep into studying the Archives. For those who are unwilling....well, they must judge for themselves based upon what they read "currently". I've scaled back my postings to reduce the abuse and irritant level on the Forum. I attract the Lunatic and Flaming Fringe. We don't need that. But my reduction of participation has opened the door to those who make excessive use of claims, and excessively post (or bump) just to keep a "in their face" presence.

I don't won't go there, choosing to interact only when I have relevant content to offer. That is why I addressed Tryg's intrusion. He's always been obvious in his disdain for anything he doesn't promote or sell "Mfg Screen-wise" and his negative commentary is not needed or really even welcome on a Forum dedicated to DIY Screen applications. I've extended countless "Olive Branches" to him, and others on "Screens" and "PJs over 3K" but the fact is that my efforts run contrary to what matters most to them, and present a real challenge to their "Status Quo". Always have....and will continue to do so if I have any say in the matter.

So I wanted to write to you to give you an overview of the situation. I kinda chuckled about your questioning the validity of my statements about calbear's screen. I've chosen not to make issue of my involvement in his incredible project (...and it was extensive...well beyond the Screen itself...) up to now because those "other people' would have simply used it against me to show that I'm a professional "Screen maker" and not a DIY'er. . I'm simply a good DIY-er . Everything I do is 'DIY", and nothing I do cannot be taught to, nor is made unavailable to any willing DIY-er. Yes...I'm 30 years in to the Art of making Home Theaters, I was making them well before they were considered "popular". And so many have tried for years to get me booted off AVS, but they have not succeeded because I've never really violated any Rules. Stretched 'em a few times....yes. But never for self-aggrandizement, promotion of my "off line" business, or for any degree of profit made from a AVS member.

That has saved my ass, and nothing else. And that too is what chaps the asses of my discounters.

But it is...and remains "All Good". ;)

I hope I've given you food for thought, and perhaps a clearer understanding of DIY Screens. Leastwise as I see it...eh? And I wish you luck on whatever course you take, and if you ever need any advise or help....well, you know where to find it. ;)

Maurice
aka: MississippiMan

Yet another reason to avoid AVS is the vitriol attacks constantly taking place. And these things can occur for no apparent reason. Take this thread for example. You've got wbassett offering up some sound advice and right from the 'get go' a couple of insignificant folks start spouting off about the pictures. Nothing at all said about the post or it's context, just a bunch of hub-a-baloo about the pictures being over exposed and them being fakes. I for one know otherwise. They are my pictures and they are no fakes. They are photos though, photos taken on 'auto' settings. The original pictures with a real review of Da-Lite's screen materials can be found here.

So throughout that thread at AVS, folks cannot put two and two together and figure out the simplistic reason for the photos looking like they do. When the pj was calibrated for the High Power it was mounted on a table. And when it was calibrated for the Siler Matte, it was mounted from the ceiling. When one calibrates a screen material, they do so with the projector in the optimum position. After finally seeing someone there get it (jib-jab), I was done looking/reading that thread.

Much to my surprise, today tryg himself posted in that thread. And thrust upon us his lack of understanding the simplest of things. jib-jab came back to the rescue yet again and summed it up with this beautiful post. That individual has impeccable taste!

With 9000+ posts, I think you haven't read any of the pertinent posts in this thread. The other option was that you really didn't have a grasp of the subject matter. I think I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

It's relatively easy to render a retro-reflective screen 'average'. All one has to do is be a bit more cerebral about it. Think about it. And I'll throw this out there again. One material is retro, the other angular. The certified calibrator (lcaillo) figured it out in no time... as did I.

Then again, I've seen mech's reviews (he or she actually does them with large samples and with spectro readings to support his/her findings - a refreshing change from here!) at the other place. I think wbassett & company are heads and tails above what we see here. Maybe that's the cause of the hostility?

Sometimes it's tough to see through the rhetoric here and you only add to it.
No wonder most folks like me lurk.

Back to lurk mode.

Good stuff! tryg and I are in agreement on one thing though, there are a number of commercial screens that are very cheap that you can get that will perform as well or better than any diy screen. Check out Elite Screens.